The Second Night
|
|
This was a late night chat that happened on March 3, 2001. It was the second staff chat, with the same three members: Takeuchi Takashi, Nasu Kinoko, and OKSG. The theme this time was "Ciel." There were some strange ideas, happenings, and nonsense spouted, but we actually covered a lot of ground!
|
Late in the evening on March 3, 2001, in a certain chat room--
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Shall we begin?
|
|
Nasu
|
Yessir!
|
|
Well then, I hereby begin the second staff chat. What's our theme this time?
|
|
Takeuchi
|
The Chapter of Ciel!
|
|
...as you say (laugh)
|
|
Nasu
|
Please quest me! (*1)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
...search for me?
|
|
OK, I guess we'll start off with "What gave birth to Ciel?"
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Ciel was a character born from a symbol.
|
|
Nasu
|
We needed an older sister character, that was the most basic reason. Right?
|
|
Takeuchi
|
A senpai, glasses, someone who fights with vampires! That's what we needed.
|
|
Nasu
|
Yeah. She was created as an antagonist on the church side who could face Arc.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Older sister characters don't really push my buttons. Maybe that's why she turned out the way she did.
|
|
Nasu
|
At first, she wasn't such a flashy (flashy even though she's so plain) character.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Plain AND flashy (laugh)
|
|
Nasu
|
That's when I thought of Chime. Chime. The aide from 「Flowers of Ice」. (*2)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Chime... so that was it.
|
|
Nasu
|
She's brisk, speaks politely, is a talented secretary, but is still somewhat cute.
|
|
Ahh, I can see it all now... (laugh)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
It took us a bit to decide on her name. Were there any other candidates?
|
|
Nasu
|
Alt (laugh). But Take-chan said we wouldn't be able to tell her apart from Arc, so we couldn't use it. (*3) That was the only other one. Shiki had a lot, but everyone else only had one or two.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Shiki was Tachie at first, wasn't he.
|
|
Nasu
|
Tachie. I liked that name. That echo. I was thinking of names that could sound like English names as well, like Roa's.
|
|
You mean Roa's name was decided from the beginning?
|
|
Nasu
|
Roa was... well, he came from a draft of 「Angel Notes」. (*4) Nero was decided instantly. Hisui and Kohaku were Tohno.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
You also said you liked Madoka and Tomoe. But once their stories were decided, Hisui and Kohaku felt the best.
|
|
The names Hisui and Kohaku also convey impressions of color.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Personally, I think they're very good names.
|
|
Nasu
|
I think Akiha was Misaya.
|
|
Speaking of Tohno, did you ever think of doing a crossover with 「Kara no Kyoukai」? (*5)
|
|
Nasu
|
No, even though the word rules (special powers/magic) are the same. They're both just "small happenings in a single world."" That's why the first main character I made is Aoko-san. (*6)
|
|
Nasu
|
Now that I think about it, Ciel's name has the most meaning... in a sort of "Oh man, I can't believe I did it" way...
|
|
Oh, are you talking about the L'arc en Ciel incident? (*7)
|
|
Nasu
|
Ah, now I remember. Ciel's initial concept. She was older, yet acted younger.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
In the beginning, we were aiming for "cute" with Ciel.
|
|
Nasu
|
But she is cute. (*8)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Really? I think she became more of a cool character.
|
|
Nasu
|
As far as I'm concerned, Ciel's 'playing dumb' face may be the loveliest of all the characters.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
You did insist on including it with the character CG. (laugh)
|
|
Nasu
|
Yeah. When I saw a rough sketch of that, I was dead set on having you keep it.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
I think Ciel was the cutest during the earliest rough draft. (*9)
|
|
I liked that plain aspect about her.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Afterwards, we made some changes... the second Ciel (*10) got especially bad reactions. My superior at work even said "You can't use that." That's how we got to the Ciel we know now.
|
|
The biggest change was giving her sideburns.
|
|
Nasu
|
Sideburns! Take them off and she powers up!
|
|
Didn't you say they were important tools to conserve her power, like a propeller tanks or something. (laugh)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
The music composer, KATE, said the sideburns looked cool, like Kurumada Masami's. (*11)
|
|
Nasu
|
When Ciel's at school, she's a senpai who looks out for her juniors, when she's in her clerical robes she's an assassin, and when she's in her full combat sleeveless uniform, she's a martial artist (like Gouki). That was our silhouette image of her.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Yeah... we even planned to have an erotic scene of her in her clerical robes. We ended up not doing it, though.
|
|
In her robes?! That would have been hot.
|
|
Nasu
|
Those robes can be flipped up all the way from the underneath... Like a Teru teru bozu, woosh...
|
|
Ah, okay, we're talking about erotic stuff now, so let's talk about Ciel's erotic scenes. (laugh)
|
|
Nasu
|
Ahaha. I'll leave this to Takeuchi-sensei, then!
|
|
Takeuchi
|
We thought about anal from the beginning with Ciel.
|
|
Nasu
|
Yes. The concept was "using every one of her holes." Because she was so forgiving.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
About that, of the H scenes in the free demo, I still think Ciel's the most erotic of all. (laugh)
|
|
That was definitely very erotic. (laugh)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Yeah, even more erotic than the scenes in the main game. Strictly, it wasn't meant to be, but it had so much impact.
|
|
Nasu
|
Ugh... I don't want to remember those floppy disk demos. I was still working at that time, and my heart was beating very fast as I completed it since it was my first time writing erotic scenes. I was just so desperate searching for my own "style" of erotic scenes.
|
|
There was even a glasses ON/OFF switch in the complete edition. (laugh)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
I had wanted to do that from the beginning. Because personally, I didn't want them to have their glasses on in the erotic scenes.
|
|
Nasu
|
But while you were drawing them with glasses, I remember you whispering "...I think I finally understand why people have glasses fetishes." ♪
|
|
Takeuchi
|
I thought Ciel's erotic scenes were cuter with her glasses on. (laugh) I had barely finished them in time, but I'm glad I made it.
|
|
They got a good response. In fact, I think the majority of people went through those scenes with the glasses on. (laugh)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Didn't you say you had fun writing Ciel's erotic scenes?
|
|
Nasu
|
Yeah, it was fun. Unlike other girls, senpai takes the lead during sex. Mmm? Was there a clear lead...?
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Sometimes Shiki teases, and sometimes it's senpai. I think both Ciel's scenario AND erotic scenes were the most dramatic. Simple, but flashy! 「Makai Tensho」! (*12)
|
|
Nasu
|
Right. Ciel was a really easy character to move around.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
She's all-powerful, in a different way from Arc. She's convenient...heheheh...
|
|
Nasu
|
The one in 「Tsukihime」 who gets her hands dirty. That's Ciel-senpai. An adult woman!
|
|
Nasu
|
Looking back over Ciel's plot notes, I found a memo that said "matching glasses." ...it's no big deal, but I thought it'd be cute if she said it.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
There's a lot of things like that. When we decided to write down and put together all the things we wanted to do during a meeting, I found one that said "They debut as a band. But after five years, they lose their guitar player..." (*13)
|
|
Nasu
|
Wahahahahaha!
|
|
I have no idea what you guys are talking about. (laugh)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Shall we move on to the next topic?
|
|
Nasu
|
OK, next topic. Come on, ask a question!
|
|
I dunno, I'm having trouble moving ahead today... (laugh)
|
|
Nasu
|
Hurry up! 「SF3」 (*14) is waiting.
|
|
Tell it to keep waiting!
|
|
Takeuchi
|
「BR3」 (*15) is waiting.
|
|
Nasu
|
Even though you have no one to play with.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
The god-like computer is my opponent.
|
|
We're not making any progress! (cries)
|
|
You had a model for Arcueid, how about Ciel?
|
|
Takeuchi
|
What do you think, Nasu?
|
|
Nasu
|
Ciel's model? It was Qrowbet. (*16) ...I think. Yeah, and that secretary Take-chan drew for 「Limitlessly Blue」. (*17)
|
|
Design-wise, there's a bit of Kurobe (*18) in there too.
|
|
Nasu
|
As far as I know, there's no strict model, though.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Where did the 'she likes curry' thing come from?
|
|
Nasu
|
Ciel and curry? Oh boy, here we go.
|
|
Is this some shocking new truth we're about to hear?
|
|
Nasu
|
Ciel's father is a baker who looked at naan bread as a rival. He even says to his daughter Ciel: "Don't you dare eat any curry, no matter what. Even if it kills you. No, in fact, completely erase it from your mind." Ever since then she's distanced herself from curry.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Seriously? (laugh)
|
|
Nasu
|
She had to go defeat a Dead Apostle in India as her first job with the Burial Agency, though, and so she met with some curry there. The offensive and eccentric taste shocked her. "Dad was keeping such a delicious food all to himself!" And she became obsessed with it.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
The Indian Dead Apostle... why does that make me laugh? (laugh)
|
|
OK, how much of that is true?
|
|
Nasu
|
By the way, the Dead Apostle who fed her curry at that time was called Curry Du Marche. He eventually joins the 27 Ancestors, as the comedy representative...
|
|
Liar!
|
|
Takeuchi
|
You need to do something about that compulsive lying of yours. (*19) You almost had us there...
|
|
Nasu
|
Up until Curry Du Marche, it's all true.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Doesn't that make most of it true?!
|
|
It started to sound really suspicious starting at the going to India part!
|
|
Nasu
|
I told you, there's nothing romantic about Ciel's curry story. There's just fiction that sounds made up. Lies and truth!
|
|
Takeuchi
|
You've completely lost me!
|
|
After Roa disappeared, did the "Counter Force" leave any effects on Ciel's body?
|
|
Nasu
|
The moment Roa disappeared, Ciel lost her immortality. Ah, but the self preservation magic she had learned is still there, and thanks to that she was fine. As usual, she's built for playing rough.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
How much magic potential does Ciel have?
|
|
Nasu
|
Far above that of an A rank mage. In terms of Ciel's excellent qualities, the ceiling of her power to preserve magic energy is extremely high.
|
|
So how much of a gap is there between her and a normal mage?
|
|
Nasu
|
Let's say a normal mage can keep a large beer mug's worth of magic energy within himself. Ciel can keep a metal washbowl's worth. No, a poly-tank's worth. As far as battles are concerned, normal mages use water guns, while Ciel can fight with a water hose.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
For some reason I have an image of her fighting with swords and guns like a warrior, but she's actually pretty strong as a mage.
|
|
Nasu
|
Yeah, because that's what she really is. She doesn't like it, though. She's basically good at everything, and she can use any weapon. She has no favorites, but guns are the only one she likes.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Is she good at magic?
|
|
Nasu
|
Yes, actually, it's more like she just knows a lot of magic. She just hardly ever uses them, so she's wasting her talent. There's more magic she knows that she's never used.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
So just like Arc, Ciel also has a lot of data that wasn't talked about in the actual game.
|
|
I bet there's a ton. Her work, her past...
|
|
OK now, let's talk about the game's strongest weapon, the Seventh Holy Scripture.
|
|
Nasu
|
That was originally something made from the horn of a unicorn, a phantasmal beast (*20) that was made into a weapon by the Burial Agency. It was originally a holy symbol, kind of like the finishing move, something used in etiquette to mark the end. But then it started to be used as a weapon.
|
|
So it was that kind of crazy weapon from the beginning?
|
|
Nasu
|
In the beginning it was just like a spear or a stake, but as it started to be transformed into a weapon, it changed into a more practical type of bayonet. ...it wasn't perfectly a bayonet, though. It still had some dignity as a holy book, shape-wise... but then Ciel, who loves heavy firearms, changed it into a bulky Pile Bunker. (*21)
|
|
Why a Pile Bunker...?
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Nasu wanted an organic, bulky horn at first. I thought that lacked impact, so I said, why not just make it a Pile Bunker? And that's what it became.
|
|
Nasu
|
I thought of the entire idea by going for the impact of using the name "The Seventh Scripture" but having it not be a book, but an actual weapon utilized against Dead Apostles (visually).
|
|
Takeuchi
|
I had a hard time thinking up an image. I found out it was an unicorn horn from the White Book on the train on the way to hand the finished 「Tsukihime」 in to POPLS.
|
|
Wow.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
If he had told me earlier... I could have, uh... (bitter laugh) It was a design that I have a lot of problems with, that I regret, so if I ever get a chance, I'd like to renew it.
|
|
You could make it into an updated version that represents Ciel's tastes even more! (laugh)
|
|
We have the Ciel who works with the Burial Agency, and the gentle senpai Ciel. Which is the real one?
|
|
Nasu
|
The gentle one.
|
|
So she shows her real self at school.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
I wonder which one is real. All characters in 「Tsukihime」 have a lot on their shoulders, so I think in many cases, right after they have sex, they're able to be more honest. I think Ciel's the same way.
|
|
Nasu
|
Yes, Like Shiki, relaxing and drinking tea in late afternoon is important to her.
|
|
What kind of a school life does she lead?
|
|
Nasu
|
She goes to class. She sits in the back of the class, out of everyone else's view, and enjoys listening to the teacher. She also runs through the hall helping people out. She also tricks the teachers into letting her have the tea ceremony room, even making them give her a budget so that she can eat all the sweets she wants... hm? Maybe she's actually a really smart criminal?
|
|
Takeuchi
|
The smooth criminal Ciel! 「Demon Deathchase」! (*22)
|
|
In the popularity vote the other day, Ciel got 5th. What do you think?
|
|
Takeuchi
|
I think there was a sudden rush right before the deadline.
|
|
Nasu
|
No... it's just how I imagined it'd go. Really. Ciel was made for the #2 spot, not #1. (*23) She isn't the type to get in front of everyone and speak her mind.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
True, she isn't the character for the #1 spot. But she is the most charming.
|
|
Nasu
|
Yeah. Honestly, I like all characters equally, but I'm glad Ciel caught up. I wish all five characters had gotten the #1 spot together.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
I was just worried she'd lose to Satsuki (laugh) (*24) Even though she's part of the pillar of the oldest 3 heroines.
|
|
Nasu
|
...I guess that's it.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
We certainly took our time.
|
|
I still have a few questions left...
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Alright, that's it for tonight's chat!
|
|
Whaaaat?!
|
|
Nasu
|
Next time is Akiha!
|
|
OK then, we'll see you next time at Staff Roundtable Night 3 - Akiha. Ahh, it's really over now! (laugh)
|
|
Takeuchi
|
OK? We're done for tonight, right?
|
|
Nasu
|
Yep. OK, we'll be leaving now. Goodnight.
|
|
Takeuchi
|
Night!
|
|
Thank you!
|
The End of the Second Night
(Interviewer: OKSG)
|
|
The First Night
|
